Comments on: Institutional Education vs Social Media Learning: What’s the future of learning?

By: Informal Learning, Human Brains, & Cloud Computing - Fleep’s Deep Thoughts

Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:41:22 +0000

[...] posted a few days ago about the Personal Economics of Social Media, and highlighted Intellagirl’s slideshow, How Social Media is Pushing Higher Ed into Identity Crisis. If you missed it, I highly recommend [...]

By: Richard Hall

Richard Hall — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:30:29 +0000

This debate is critical for HE. We waste opportunities for engaging the critical skills and literacies that we and our learners are developing in wider social networks. A connected model that moves HE away frm 19th century, factory models of education and accreditation is needed, in order to engage with 21st century tools and ways of working. At present HE institutions are trying to shoehorn technologies and ways of working with them into traditional landscapes.

This also has the benefit of extening HE as a democratic project. The issue isn’t either formal or informal, it’s both/and…

http://www.slideshare.net/secret/s2escJ0qs3y4AB

By: Muffy St. Bernard

Muffy St. Bernard — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:52:37 +0000

IG, I think it’s wonderful to compile informal learning, as long as the sources are trustworthy and the assertions double-checked (particularly when the cost of using incorrect information is high).

Years in technical support taught me that users — including myself — often mistake “coincidence” for “a fix,” and they generate outright superstitions that they share with others. They’ll write a forum post along the lines of “I’ve discovered that if you click button X, you need to save your file in format Y before you close the program…otherwise your data might become corrupted!”

This fix might work…OR it may have been formulated based on a one-time coincidence that doesn’t fix the underlying problem. What’s more, if you’re searching a forum for a solution to a problem, you might stop as soon as you find an incorrect solution without realizing that the next hit contained the REAL solution.

So I basically agree with one of Pyrophage’s points: social media needs sifting before you can really learn critical things from it. If you have the time, knowledge, resources, inclination, and critical thinking skills to do that sifting yourself, then it’s useful. Otherwise, however, most of us benefit more from an environment where we’re trained by a trusted source.

Not to say, of course, that all trusted sources are trustworthy…

By: Pyrophage

Pyrophage — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:59:01 +0000

How many people graduated from Harvard last year? A couple thousand? Now how many successful people do you know that took it upon themselves to learn and perfect a skill?

Having someone weed out the nonsense isn’t special, just more expensive, and certainly more efficient.

If you really think that having a degree from an accredited institution just look at the glut of degree holding individuals on unemployment right now. Everybody and their brother has a degree now, ergo by definition it is not special, just more efficient.

I still say that Independent learning is more elitist because being able to say “I got here without YOU.” Means the “YOU” in question were not important.

By: Intellagirl

Intellagirl — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:30:50 +0000

Pyrophage: I’m fascinated by the idea that informal social learning might actually be more elitist than institutionalized learning. Surely, the privilege of paying someone else (an institution) to do the sifting for you and give you only what you need makes institutional learning more special. Agree?

By: Pyrophage

Pyrophage — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:05:55 +0000

“Facts without theory is trivia;
Theory without facts is bullshit.”

When you look up who wrote some song or how to do a work around in Photoshop, you’re searching for trivia. Useful trivia, at that moment, but trivia, none the less.

The problem I see with harnessing social learning phenomena is the same problem I have with nearly all home-schoolers. What you need in both situations is relatively accurate data, or, at least, data that can be verified through experimentation, and profoundly driven individuals.

Just imagine a class without deadlines or grades. Some folks would thrive, no doubt, but I think most would be lost, feel cheated, and fail miserably.

In one respect social learning is the common man’s means of gaining information, but it is so much more elitist than any college. Think about it, at Harvard you are told what to do and what is important. If you learn new things via forums and wikis you must sift through piles of crap to find that one useful nugget that makes your world work. And in doing so come up with your own theory supported by the facts of the situation. Otherwise, you still end up with trivia and bullshit. And the world has more than enough of both.

Again, knowing Sarah, Social learning will work just peachy for her. I had to tell a couple of our classmates not to compare themselves to her, it would just make them sad. But I think for the average Joe, not so much.

By: Personal Economics of Social Media - Fleep’s Deep Thoughts

Personal Economics of Social Media - Fleep’s Deep Thoughts — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:35:34 +0000

[...] I was musing about this, I ran across Intellagirl’s recent slideshow about the differences between formal education in an institution and informal learning through [...]

By: Colin

Colin — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:59:11 +0000

Sarah I was talking about this the other day with my mother who is the Department Chair for Special Education of North Side High School in Fort Wayne, IN. The public school corporation she works for under utilizes the abilities of technology. They look at everything from a cost or worry stand point instead of an opportunistic stand point. This causes for a certain trend to take place. Which is most of the innovations in teaching dont come from the top down they come from the bottom up. My worry is that it seems that a rookie teachers should be bringing this to light but the teachers of old routines will stop any progression. The cost savings and development this could bring to students is enormous. Not to mention, if done right the ability to make the teachers job tremendously less stressful.

By: admin

admin — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:07:13 +0000

Hey folks! Thanks for the comments!
Muffy…I know of a few companies who use user-generated documentation by allowing their trusted alpha and beta testers to contribute to a support-wiki as they trial software. What’s your opinion about that practice?

By: Muffy St. Bernard

Muffy St. Bernard — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:52:18 +0000

At a recent STC summit, many people were panicking about this issue: if computer users simply use online forums instead of reading the manuals we write…well, what’s the use of writing our manuals? Why should we spend so much time on presentation and style? Why should we go and take courses on technical communication?

Well, when people say that users go online to find answers to questions, that is true in — as you say — informal situations. But this is not generally true in larger corporations where they teach employees how to implement and use software; they THRIVE on manuals and technical resources. They don’t go to forums — which may suggest incorrect or somewhat dangerous work-arounds and hacks — unless the manuals fail them.

So my point is just that there continues to be a place for formal learning. People continue to go to training seminars. When they’re stuck for information, or when their formal sources of help fail them, or when they’re in a more informal computing situation, they certainly DO go online (we all do!) but formal learning isn’t dead yet.

I know this isn’t the point of your post necessarily, but in response to Lara (above), I don’t know why Harvard charges its fees, but I assume that most universities charge fees to pay professors, fund research, and to build and maintain their infrastructures. I don’t see informal learning as a replacement for university when it comes to preparing for a career in most cases.

Real world experience, however, can help in many disciplines.