Comments on: Playing Devil’s Advocate: SL vs Virtual Worlds vs Better Learning

By: PB

PB — Wed, 27 May 2009 07:09:43 +0000

I am interested in alternatives to SL. I have always been supportive of open source tools. I am not really interested in SL as a platform. SL is not lab, people, hardware, software, or finance friendly. But I do not use SL for the tools. I use it for the community. The people in SL have created the community, not Linden Labs or software. My problem in the past with alternatives such as There was that it was much like Gertrude Stein’s Oakland, there was no there there. I need organizations like Community Colleges in Second Life. I know they can happen in other worlds but I do not have time to reinvent that wheel. I like the open standards model. It is one this to argue that SL may not be the platform in a couple of years, but Metaplace is in beta and no one has any idea of what it will look like in a couple of years.

By: Amy Billig (SL Sarah Marcus)

Amy Billig (SL Sarah Marcus) — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:23:30 +0000

Sorry I’m so late with this response…

Ever since the text based MUDs of the 1980′s and 1990s through the graphical MUVEs of today, the virtual environment (regardless of which one is being used) has promoted a collaborative learning environment catering to constructivist and constructionist pedagogies. It provides many benefits conducive to REAL learning, such as:
-Feedback from others
-Positive reinforcement
-Teaching one another other
-Collaborating on mutual projects – the results are often better than individually
-Social success and social compatibility are determined by different factors online versus face to face.
-Inseparability of the social and intellectual activity going on.
-The collaboration takes place in the context of a social network

So I think the argument should be focused more toward the virtual learning space, with SL being an effective example. SL can be used as a model to create other environments which might suit more specific needs of a school.

And I agree that one of the major factors that makes SL such a fine example is the professional learning network that has developed, on which so many of us rely. Its a perfect example of the effectiveness of a virtual learning environment.

Amy

By: Geoff Higgins (SL Gef Bookmite)

Geoff Higgins (SL Gef Bookmite) — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:50:45 +0000

I think you make some excellent points Sarah. I am confident that the ‘multi-purposes’ of SL make it valuable. I play FPS for fun, and am looking at SL for two things – connecting with other educators (who live elsewhere); and spending time ‘with’ my distance students (who live elsewhere). I have the former well in train, but the latter is yet to come. I am sure that my time achieving the former will make the latter all the richer.
…Geoff

By: Suzanne

Suzanne — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:46:16 +0000

“I’d argue that the educational community should develop it’s own faceted model, not for feature comparison per se, but to highlight universal needs as well as benefits and their attendant priorities.”

The idea that there is an educational community with universal needs is a bit problematic for me, even more so when it’s in response to debates about the efficacy of educational technologies. These are hammer-seeking-nail kinds of discourses even when they’re elevated.

It’s challenging but important that, in our conversational Venn diagrams, we’re able articulate the circles of what we mean. We (this educational community) are diverse in our experiences and disciplines; we ourselves are Venned.
I like models for articulation; and damn this one is another Venn! You’d think I was a Venn Diagram evangelist .
Seriously …this is one of the many ways I’d like to frame discussions of 3D virtual environments for education and learning.
http://www.tpck.org/tpck/index.php?title=Main_Page

By: chris

chris — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:51:06 +0000

Geoff has a great point… it’s only going to get easier for educators to access virtual worlds LIKE Second Life, but the SLED community is a HUGE advantage. Until something like that develops across the board (VWED?), Second Life will be on top of the virtual classroom simply because of the resources developed by those in it.
I’ll be keeping an eye on Metaplace simply because I’m interested in seeing what they do with Flash, but I don’t see them stealing SL’s crown anytime soon.

By: admin

admin — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:42:49 +0000

Craig, you make a great point! I think I should have clarified my use of Metaplace as an example. I compared the two to show that there’s not much difference in their affordances when it comes to the features that we most often point to in SL as being conducive to education. I wanted the example to make it clear that it’s not the tool we’re really talking about. It’s what the tools let us do.
I didn’t use my own facets because they’re intended for classification not to point to learning affordances but both SL and Metaplace are on my chart which is linked to in a previous post if anyone wants to take a look!
Intellagirl

By: Geoff Cain

Geoff Cain — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:33:35 +0000

By: Grace

Grace — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:55:10 +0000

I think your Metaplace comparison hurt your argument a bit, at least it did for me. Why in this case did you choose not to use your own VW facets for comparison? Doing so may have presented a different perspective.

I am an advocate of Metaplace principles (and btw I believe as Beta testers we are under an obligation of limited disclosure), however I’d argue that many people who read this have not tried Metaplace yet, nor have they attempted to duplicate what they have in SL in Metaplace and this is likely to offer a more meaningful comparison versus a features list.

If such a comparison could be made, I’d argue that the educational community should develop it’s own faceted model, not for feature comparison per se, but to highlight universal needs as well as benefits and their attendant priorities. Comparing features at this point seems a bit premature unless there is a method for evaluation, and that evaluation should be grounded in improving the methods by which we teach – ideally aligned with how we learn.

So then, how is SL aligned with how we learn?

Just my $0.02.

By: Larry Dugan (marcius dowding)

Larry Dugan (marcius dowding) — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:16:52 +0000

Alas,
It is about the right time in the SLED growth curve that this conversation happens. Probably past time. As a SL evangelist, I have found that being on the bleeding edge does eventually leave you with little more than less blood. It is time for those who we evangelize too need to “virulize” our positions so as to make VLE’s more mainstream. And you and our other colleagues publishing the research on SL need to get more papers out there with some hardcore research to back up what is still relatively subjective and anecdotal in nature. There are still too few of you (us) pushing for MUVE’s in education.
Conversely, you are right about student-centered active learning has become far more common place with the growth of the virtual classroom. We may not have inspired as radical a change as we would like, but there certainly is a new look/feel to 21 century learning. There is some credit to be taken there by this community.

By: Craig A. Cunningham

Craig A. Cunningham — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:14:47 +0000

Face facts. SL is like “kool aid” to those who have embraced it with both (virtual) hands AND feet. And its “value” to those people is not so much in the LEARNING that they are able to foster in others (that is, in the educational potential), but rather in the inspiration it generates for them (and the helluva-good-time they are having). Rather than asking others to drink the Kool Aid, SL enthusiasts need to realize that it REPRESENTS something: teacher renewal, technological tools as spaces for play, intense community online. And SL is great for some things (learning about SL…certain software tools…foreign language learning). But it ain’t the cat’s pajamas of P-12 learning that many of us once thought, for all sorts of reasons (not least of which is the incredible way that kids are kept out…and teens segregated). It requires real sophistication to take one’s own enthusiasm and channel it towards more general values. It’s not the Kool Aid….it’s the way that drink helps us see possibilities.

(Thanks for reminding us–and yourself–Sarah!)